Problems With 'The Excellent Wife' by Martha Peace
The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace sells like hotcakes in biblical counseling/fundamentalist/homeschooling circles, and even though it seems like a ‘fringe’ book, it’s affecting tens of thousand of women. Today Marissa Burt and Tia Levings and I sit down to talk about the problems with this book that tells women they must obey their husbands…
source
Click to rate this post!
[Total: 0 Average: 0]
%20no-repeat%20center%20center;-webkit-background-size:cover;-moz-background-size:cover;-o-background-size:cover;background-size:%20cover;)
%20no-repeat%20center%20center;-webkit-background-size:cover;-moz-background-size:cover;-o-background-size:cover;background-size:%20cover;)
Sheila, I enjoyed this show and appreciate your work. I would like to add, though, that not all biblical counseling is nouthetic counseling. I have studied biblical counseling with Tim Clinton and the American Association of Christian Counseling (AACC) and found their teaching to be much more balanced than nouthetic counseling's ideas. AACC incorporates biological, psychological, and sociological factors along with a Christ-centered approach to counseling. Also, just because a counselor is licensed doesn't mean they don't practice nouthetic counseling as well. For those who are seeking a Christian counselor, ask what they studied in their training and look it up.
I liked when you all talked about how marriage does not have to be hard. I was just telling my friend this morning, "I always heard that marriage is hard, but mine does not feel that way. My husband is so loving, and I hope he feels just as loved by me."
Tia could you please tell that oyster shell story? Is it told in Debi’s book?!?
Sheila, thankfully what you’re saying about biblical counseling is FAR from always true! I went in very “warily,” as your guest recommended, but i have been SO blessed with a biblical counselor who has extensively researched abuse etc… it’s been an amazing empowering experience.
35:00 restart
VERY GOOD MORNING CONFESSION MAY GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS ALL WOMEN THE DAUGHTER OF 9EVE SHE IS THE MOTHER AND PARTNER IN CREATION ❤❤❤❤EMACONCEPTION STILL COME FROM ALMIGHTY GOD❤❤❤
I don't know why this video ended up in my suggested feed, but I'm glad it did! I watched with interest and curiosity, and a measure of sadness to know that there were so many women who'd been taught so many lies. Of course, I encountered a few of them myself, but I mostly had a different reaction, one of resistance! I grew up reformed Presbyterian, and through God's grace was taught the truth about God, his Word, and my relationship to Jesus. I've always had a bit of a "you can't tell me what to do" rebellious streak when it came to the important adults in my life, which I attributed in part to my understanding of my citizenship in Heaven. But mostly I was a good kid. Once I was married, I naturally desired to love my husband well, so I paid closer attention to those messages aimed at Christian Women, read a few books, and became very frustrated over the years as to why those resources weren't working. Of course, when only one person in the marriage is seeking help, using resources, learning, trying, it doesn't make the one who is trying feel any better. Anyway, as I'm watching your video, you mention Nancy Wilson, from Iowa, and I immediately hit pause and ran to my bookshelf. "The Fruit of Her Hands" was right where I'd stashed it! I was given the book by a lady at church 25 years ago, and I hated it. I felt so incredibly guilty when I read it, and I knew that couldn't be right. My spirit was disturbed! I read it thru, but I never talked about it with any of them. It was so critical and unloving and discouraging! That's what I remember the most about it. I opened the book tonight and my rebellious spirit had arising at the very first sentence! In remarking on 2Tim 3:1-6, she says "American women today are indeed gullible." I jotted a note in the margin, "SAYS WHO?!" and "Opinion!" with an arrow. I didn't know what gaslighting was then, but Nancy Wilson started doing it with her first sentence! It's a NO from me! If men worked half as hard at "loving their wives as Christ loved the church", maybe we wouldn't need all these gaslighting books aimed at women! Maybe you'll comment on one of Mrs Wilson's books in a future episode. Subscribe button clicked!
Books like this are one of the many reasons I HATE all those "young couples" classes.
Whoa… The Bible is not the word of God? Please think on this one more, Sheila!
Thank you so much for this amazing podcast, all of you!! 🎉🎉👏👏😢😭
Peace is her real last name. That is also her husband's last name.
this is so profoundly sad… thank you for drudging through this for the review, I hope you are taking the spiritual reprieve to heal from this.
You guys left out the part where she says God will eventually discipline the husband with death. So that is our only hope according to her. Sadly a woman's husband who was addicted and physically abusive and she felt she should stay with him, he seemed to get a breakthrough, came to church, appeared to be born again….died in his sleep of a stroke. I felt oh, Martha was right!! That was awful. This book really was sad but I trusted the people teaching and recommending. It hurt so bad to be told my loneliness was a sin.
Tis podcast is so good!!! Thanks! Is there also a podcast or post on Debi Pearl's book 'created to be a help meet'?
In my former denomination, women hear demeaning messages about them and their daughters from the pulpit, at “conferences”, Bible study, Sunday school, district meetings, jurisdictional meetings, national meetings, everywhere. Scripture is used like an axe, intended to annihilate their spirits.
The violence of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is perpetuated, sanctioned, and performed by women. Globally, men have manipulated women to do their evil bidding.
Great episode!
Suffering happens in life: but life should not be suffering in itself as the raw default.
THIS…..
Just because it quotes a Bible verse doesn't make it Biblical '
Yikes, places that taught proper counselling downgrading ti to the 'biblical counselling' pretence…
What do you think of Frank Lake? Can't recall book name but was edge of mainstream chur he's in late 80s UK
"Martha has been married to her high school sweetheart, Sanford Peace, since September 24th of 1966. He is a retired air traffic controller with the FAA." I can't find any indication that he's written anything.
Just last evening I was crying to a friend on the phone complaining that God sees my feelings as bad and that I’m sinning for wanting the abuse in my marriage to stop. That God knows it’s wrong but supports my husband. Wow. This is an answer to my cries.
48:00 This is an idea that so many people don't seem to understand. You can have extreme, fringe groups that take ideas to a logical extreme that people say "No one actually believes that," but those same ideas seep into the mainstream, filtered and rebranded so that they seem normal. In the end, though, there's nothing to prevent those beliefs from being followed back to their logical extremes.
A criticism I've heard a couple of times about the Shiny Happy People documentary is that it paints Paul and Morgan as Gothard followers. To me, though, that's very obviously not the claim they're making, and a quick look at Paul and Morgan's style of dress and tattoos will tell you that they are not Gothard followers. The point the documentary was trying to communicate was that the same ideas that the cult of IBLP taught (in the case of Paul and Morgan, wifely submission) have spread far beyond the IBLP, in part because of shows like 19 Kids and Counting. They're still being spread by people who seem fairly mainstream, and they're spreading through mainstream channels like social media. (Just look at how the "umbrellas of authority" are still being circulated on Facebook, often by Evangelicals rather than hardline Fundamentalists.)
I finally left my psychologically abusive marriage at 52. I had prayed to die for close to 10 years, because i could NEVER pray for his demise. Before and during that time i also prayed to stop caring about my hurt and lonliness, etc. Everything you 3 said resonated. I never read any of these books and wasn't at a church that taught this, but was raised SBC and " divorce is not an option" and " God hates divorce " played in my head iver and over. These messages take root deep.
Wow Sheila! What your church did for you in your time of grief gave me goosebumps. What compassion and care! That's the church
My Husband is a SBC pastor. We would never recommend this book. In any case of abuse we believe in calling the authorities and being safe. A wife should leave and divorce her husband if he is abusive. You shouldn't rejoice in abuse. There is nothing godly about being a physical or emotional punching bag. Any church leader who pushes a woman to stay with a violent man is wrong….and they will answer.
Isn’t it interesting how people are constantly told that our emotions and intuition/heart is sinful, therefore we cannot trust ourselves. Then when difficult emotions come up, trying to tell us that something is wrong, we have to go to elders of the church for advice since we can’t trust ourselves.
I just threw this book out! Wish i had kept it to actually read now because I can't believe all this is in there! I didnt make it past the first couple chapters. It was given to me by my MIL when i got married. Such a sad way to live.
I am a Christian and am pretty conservative. I really dislike this book. I feel like so many Christian women marriage books gloss over many issues in marriage, and also, they act like the woman is responsible for the husband's behavior. They blame the women for their husband's behavior , without directly saying it. Just my thoughts.
Amazing episode and what horrendous messages for women in this book.