Liverpool not the first club to go all Jose Mourinho
Liverpool are not alone in moaning about referees but the reaction to Arne Slot’s red showed how keen fans are to adopt ‘a Mourinhoesque siege-mentality’.
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The Arsenal/Liverpool narrative
As it’s now appeared in multiple articles, I get the impression F365 is quite tickled by this new line that Arsenal fans are extra mad about losing to Liverpool because Liverpool is a “proper club” and a better Arsenal than Arsenal. I would like to make three points on this:
1. I can only speak as one dastardly Arsenal fan, but while I will be sad if we don’t win the title– as we almost assuredly won’t–I’d much rather lose to Liverpool than City. For me this has less to do with any of these grand narratives than it does with City having, you know, won quite a lot recently.
2. I know it drives clicks, but I really wish you’d write fewer articles about the most annoying fans and their insufferable discourse to be found on social media. I don’t deny that these fans exist– of course they do! For god’s sake P**rs M*rg*n exists. Just, this is a very mainstream sport, and I’m willing to bet most Arsenal fans are just normal people who do not care about any of this and who are well aware that Arsenal are a rich club who spend quite a lot of money, and not a band of plucky crusading upstards.
I do unabashedly love “The Arsenal” though, and I think there are a great many reasons to love this club. Maybe your parents loved Arsenal and you just always have too, for example. Maybe you have season tickets and feel kinship with the community. Bukayo Saka seems quite nice. Maybe you were trying to impress that cute boy from North London you had a crush on in 2013 and even though he turned out to be annoyingly heterosexual, what were you really going to do at that point? Return your Mesut Ozil shirt? Hardly.
Anyway, I’ve been distracted but I think my point is that most regular Arsenal fans would probably agree that any perceived moral high ground of the Stan Kroenke sports empire is decidedly not a particularly compelling reason to support The Arsenal. I suggest we immediately switch to the German model and have 19 publicly owned teams and then one owned by British Petroleum for some reason. That can be Chelsea.
3. While I would love to take credit for Liverpool’s identity, I just don’t think I can. While they have had to retool a bit over the years, as teams do, it’s hard to ignore that Salah, Alisson and VVD were racking up 90+ point seasons back when we were the mid-table team of Aubameyang (speaking of which, is he available?)
I feel like Arsenal and Liverpool fans may be unified on this point.
-Sage, relatively normal gooner
Everton perspective
I wanted to wait at least 12 hours before weighing in as well as seeing the inevitable kneejerk response from the supporters. It goes without saying but I’ll say it anyway. “Football fans see what they WANT to see when it comes to their team or a game their playing in.” All of us. Every. Single. Fan.
I actually understand where the Liverpool supporters are coming from. Don’t agree with it but I understand it. Why? Because I’ve seen calls or non-calls of the exact same nature go against my club Everton. In fact, I could give you a laundry list of calls that I personally felt were not only wrong, but corrupt, dirty, biased, etc… (I’ve written in to F365 several times about them, remember? You don’t? Ah well.)
As for the match itself, I felt it was an entertaining game although the neutrals might not agree. There were quite a few calls that should have been made for either team but weren’t. I personally felt that had Gana held on to the player next to him a little longer than he did, he probably warranted a second yellow and should have been sent off. But for every call like that, there were calls that didn’t go Everton’s way either. Diaz deciding early in the match that he wasn’t going to contest a header, but rather, just straight barge into the contesting player twice in the first ten minutes. Should he have been yellow carded? Yes, but he wasn’t.
I felt a draw was a fair result for both clubs. Everton played well enough to possibly nick it but didn’t and had we done so, possibly wouldn’t have deserved it. Liverpool weren’t at their imperious best but it would have been harsh had they actually lost the match based on the balance of play, their amount of possession, etc…
Someone mentioned Kavanaugh on VAR and how they knew LFC would be railroaded by him before the whistle blew. Ask Evertonians about Kavanaugh on VAR next time you run into one. Oliver didn’t cover himself in glory but 1) The derby is ALWAYS a tough match to officiate and 2) Bad calls were made for/against both teams, you know, like 99% of Premier League matches.
I’ve also read a lot about “dirty” Everton. This may be my blue tinted specs here, but we’ve been called a lot of things but “dirty” isn’t one of them, or at least on a consistent basis. Does anyone else think we’re a dirty team? Genuinely curious. I’m sure I saw quite a few tackles from a team in red that were late, cynical, etc… but I wouldn’t call dirty, nor would I call Liverpool a dirty team on the whole.
Lastly, I’m completely baffed by the whole “Everton celebrating at the end” as an issue as if any team wouldn’t have celebrated an equalizer in the 97th minute of the match against their arch-rival. Is any red going to tell me they wouldn’t have celebrated the same against little ole’ Everton, or City, Arsenal, or United if the roles were reversed? Please try and do it with a straight face when you do. Should Doucoure, who’s done almost nothing of note this season for us, gone over and taunted the away supporters. Probably not but he did, and for the record, I’ve got no problem with Curtis Jones taking issue with it. Both deserved red cards in the end and received them. I can’t imagine what Slot said to Oliver to get an immediate red card but I’m sure the lip readers on this site will know. Was the card justified? Was it an over-reaction by Oliver? I haven’t a clue.
Perhaps Liverpool supporters should, and I know I’m asking a lot here, have a bit of introspection before sounding off about a match, maybe take 12 hours like I have, and take a breath…that’s it…breathe…see, don’t you feel better now?
TX Bill (ten points out of the last twelve with Moyes at the helm, and I didn’t want him back…) EFC
MORE MERSEYSIDE DERBY REACTION FROM F365
👉 Liverpool fan ‘head-loss’ as truth is their team was ‘rubbish, dirty and cynical’
👉 Slot ‘failed’ and ‘Arteta’d’ after Moyes out-coached him and exposed ‘third-rate’ Van Dijk
Now nearly everyone’s mostly calmed down I’m still left with a question: how did Liverpool fall for the same through-ball-to-Beto trick that Leicester did?
Actually, there’s another one: is it going to become a Gen Z reboot (or something) of the Anderton-Sheringham corner routine that took every defence by surprise no matter how often they tried it?
Richard (showing my age there) Pike
He’s just the worst
Michael Oliver turned up to the Merseyside derby wearing a red shirt, how else do you explain Liverpool committing 20 fouls and getting 2 yellow cards whilst Everton collected 3 from 9 fouls.
Michael Oliver turned up to the Merseyside derby wearing a blue shirt, how else do you explain him awarding 20 free kicks against Liverpool but only 9 against Everton.
Michael Oliver turned up to the Merseyside derby wearing a big grin and wondering how he could make the game all about him. He figured it out.
Howard Jones
Respect for refs has gone backwards
I know the PGMOL have far from covered themselves in glory of late, but it feels like not that long ago when the idea of cracking down on dissent towards referees was roundly applauded. It was commonly felt that players and managers had created an unwholesome culture of match official abuse that was being felt keenly at the grass roots level.
Now a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. VAR was in part supposed to contribute to a the difficult role of the ref, placating incensed fans by allowing a second shot at seeing injustice corrected. I think it’s fair to say that has gone badly. We are no happier with refereeing decisions due to higher expectations and poor implementation. There has likely never been more heat on the PGMOL, a lot of it self-inflicted.
However you proportion the blame, I think any progress towards a respectful relationship towards officials has been undone and set back years. Reading the mailbox defence of Arne Slot and his assistant for his sarcastic berating of Oliver is evidence enough.
This isn’t having a pop at Slot or any particular manager. Pep, Arteta and the rest have given out similar in the recent past. But it seems fans are more willing than ever to embrace a Mourinhoesque siege-mentality where ideas of a conspiracy towards their particular club by certain refs are embraced and stoked up.
The PGMOL, VAR etc needs serious reform for sure but we need to stop defending managers acting like Slot did after the match, simply because he didn’t get the decisions he wanted. Who’d be a ref these days?
Nick
Mood swings
I enjoyed Tickner’s exhaustive (and exhausting) analysis of Premier League club moods, but I have some notes.
Chelsea, damn them, probably deserve to rate a bit higher. I’ve looked at their form table across a few intervals, and it’s weirdly incoherent. But they’ve got so much talent that a few players making better connections on the pitch could start producing serial victories. Like all decent folk, I hope not, but I can see reasons for optimism there.
Everton — bless their hearts — should be a bit higher as well. I’d imagine that season-ticket holders are feeling confident of survival and looking forward to improved seating in the new ground. That the draw-cum-victory in the final Goodison Park derby had an edge of injustice will only make the Toffees feel smug and amused. There’s also something Avalonian about Moyes’ return. It satisfies the natural order.
Insofar as Tickner’s argument in re: Arsenal is fairly aimed — and I think it is — Arsenal ought to be a good deal lower. But I do see some mitigating factors. The plurality of my EPL-supporting friends on either continent are Gunners, and their reactions reflect a despondency toward this season, but not toward the club or squad’s future.
During the Premier League era, Arsenal have never been in a position where they could expect to dominate year upon year. Thus, expectations have never really reached the level of entitlement. A chance at the title and a chance at the Champions League every year is not failure. Which is why I disagree with Tickner that things are never fine with Arsenal. They were fine under Wenger until near the end, they could have been fine sticking with Unai Emery, and they’re fine even now. I figure 8h or 9th place.
Sadly, I think you’ve rated Newcastle supporters’ mood too high. We’re aware of our occasional fragility, so while the Carabao Cup is a magnificent opportunity, I think it will take a magnificent performance to win it. The FA Cup is not yet providing a clear path to a trophy, though it’s true that a pleasant number of threatening sides have already been eliminated. And the league is a daunting prospect. Tickner’s quite right about Newcastle United’ upcoming matches; it’s a critical period. If we come through it, then we’ll deserve that #1 slot.
Chris C, Toon Army DC
All you need is hate
All the reasons people are giving in the mailbox for hating various clubs are a bit tedious. As a neutral, here are the real reasons for hating all of the big clubs in the Premier League.
Manchester City – they have a 100% winning record in the league against Colchester United. This is definitely the worst thing they’ve ever done.
Liverpool – The Anfield Rap (which I wrote about at excessive length on this very website)
Spurs – Without Alan Sugar’s media presence from his time as Chairman, there would have been no The Apprentice. Therefore Spurs are responsible for Katie Hopkins.
Arsenal – broke Wenger so completely at the end that he’s now trying to ruin football.
Chelsea – ‘The Blues’ is the worst nickname of any football club in the country.
Manchester United – killed Rod Hull.
Jeremy Aves
A reachable Afcon
Lionel, Robert, Antoine, Jamie and of course Cristiano are all good reasons for the suits at Liverpool to reach an agreement with Mo Salah. For more than simply the worth of his goals & assists but also the teams mojo, no pun intended.
Salah is an invaluable talisman and the only downside seems to be that African Nations Cup hangover which I believe is ferry-able from Malaga this December by the way.
Much more than, for example Harry Kane, I can envisage a fit and firing Mo Salah at 35,36 and his passing is to die for.
I also notice that he rarely attracts hateful comments from opposing fans a little like Bukayo who, sadly I cannot see making it to 35, 36.
Peter ( daydreaming of my first Afcon) Andalucia
The Greatest League In The World
Here we go again.
The 2025 League Of Ireland season kicks off tonight (Friday) Its popularity has exploded in the last few seasons and this season begins with a new TV and a new radio deal to cement that. You can also watch every game on LOI TV for a paltry €99 for the season wherever you are in the world.
I’ll be at Richmond Park Inchicore in Dublin 8 to watch St Patricks Athletic hopefully keeping up the momentum that the nine game winning run at the end of last season which hauled us into third place and a European spot gave us.
PS. We’ve no VAR so you don’t have to keep your emotions in check just in case 😂
Seán, Stephen Kennys Red & White Army, Dublin
