'If We Burn': The limits of mass protest w/Vincent Bevins | The Chris Hedges Report
'If We Burn': The limits of mass protest w/Vincent Bevins | The Chris Hedges Report
The 2010s were a decade of revolt. From Athens to Atlanta, Santiago to Seoul, a global wave of protest brought masses of people into confrontation with the status quo, demanding an end to neoliberalism, racism, climate change, and more. Yet despite this upswell of grassroots political activity, little lasting, positive change followed. What…
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Who’s in cultural dominance? Who finds these “protest?” Who pulls the strings of revolution? Who controls the institutions? Who controls the media? Who controls the levers of power…the “right?” Identitarian pinko nonsense, be more myopic.
I don't think this guy understands why humans make hierarchy …. It's because the human brain can't manage the social connections of more then 150 to 250 people .
Humans buikd hierarchical structures to maintain social norms. Before you build them yiu want to have a fully planned out list of social norms you want to maintain .
The problem was never no uavib representation. The problem was not beibg able to fill the viod quick enough .
You need to build Workplace Rank n File Committees, Local Workers Councils and a Revolutionary Party. These three work in tandem to viod he viod and confront crisus.
This is a pretty massive subject matter this guy is taking on. Almost as big as you can get. That is, radically transforming society. And I'm not hearing much more than that some impromptu rebellions in the last decade didn't end up transforming society, which of course is 100% what you would expect. For instance with Occupy Wall Street, like that was ever going to accomplish anything. I don't know what the key to achieving something so vast is, but exuberant street protests by an ultimately very small, disconnected group of agitators however well meaning, is never going to accomplish anything.
I've always thought forming new political parties, in our representative democracy, where the laws and policy are created, and where the economic and social fabric of society can be profoundly altered, is the thing to do. Even though it's hard, and thankless, and not at all exciting or romantic like protest movements are. And the citizenry would have to be continuously and vigorously involved at the grassroots level as you settled on policy that a figurehead representative would faithfully legislate and implement. But maybe that's what this guy is saying….
The desiring spectacle is now not then. No Hollywood then. Now and here, small channel to channel into the large web, is trust and consensus building, recognition in general formed and theoretical education for what is needed. Now is creating structure ( Another Now ) and the gaps seen and filled. Countering attack plans placed on the chess board and communicated. Now is personal particular universal passion summoned and stored. Now is casting about for musical chair leaders with eyes open, watching and waiting and ready.
Unifying the online left is important rather than something to be mocked. Even to the ends of the right and neoliberal wings. It's what we have. Its not a matter of inclusion or exclusion but envisioning the reality of our dialectic connection / individuality with no better than and abundant jouissance within careing limits. Did I get it?
Basically this guy is explaining what Trotskyist have been saying for 100 years now.
It was sponsored by western government overseas but suppressed at home.
Thank you. Great interview.
Hedges really is a mastermind. He’s giving us viewers a guide to a solution. Those of you who feel isolated because of your conditions. You are not!
We have a road map thanks to activists like Chomsky, kulinski, Zinn, and Yates-sexton and Hedges!
This is gold here folks! Remember, the revolution is a perpetual struggle! It doesn’t stop! Don’t stop!
✊🏼
Is this about Climate Change?
What if he combined the two topics?
This book looks like a very interesting read. Thanks
There’s many books about anarchist history of the USSR and the Russian revolutions, from George Woodcock to Emma Goldman to Alexander Berkman
Occupational therapy
Why does anyone believe Guy Fawkes was a hero?!
Damn. You rocked my worldview with this one, Chris. Thank you. Every leftist should watch this.
'The outbreak of Democracy which occurred in the 1960's must never be repeated.'
Get a necktie Chris!
"Leninist deviation" LOL "Lenin was an amoral figure," but not Jackson Hinkle, Jason Page, Anglea McArdle, Helga Zepp-LaRouche, Tatiana Moroz or Ron Paul
Blame Central Banks, corporate lobbyists, and the government they wield seamlessly infinite power over who are unaccountable and what seems untouchable for it. Central banks ceded more wealth through ZIRP to the wealthiest few at the expense of the many, corporations expanded their domination and consolidation of industry through record M&A deals under the easy money regime; and then they exerted their will upon the politicians that continued to support their bidding through policies and lucrative contracts.
In summary, governments no longer serve their people and feel only the benefits of serving their corporate overlords and none of the accountability or consequences that need to go along with such corruption and imho outright treason.
Until common “services“ are taken from parasites, nothing will change. The left does not understand what that means. The left does not use correct language. This period in history will be known as “the battle of euphemisms“. Words can mean whatever you want. Just provide a glossary. One reason the left always loses? The left always loses because they use the lexicon given to them by those who wish to deceive.
The "tragedy" of Syriza? It was a counter revolution!
The West organised the riots (sorry, "peaceful protests" as described by Western media) in Hong Kong 2019-20. The riots (sorry, "peaceful protests" as described by Western media) that over months of rioting (sorry, "peaceful protesting" as described by Western media) where the Hong Kong police did not kill one person, despite all the orchestrated lies of the insurrectionists (sorry "valiant fighters for democracy and human rights" as described by Western politicians and media"). These were the riots (sorry, “peaceful protests”, as framed by Western politicians and media) where one man was killed. One man was set on fire by them. Police officers were attacked and injured, some being splashed with acid. Police officers and their families were threatened and doxed by the rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters”, as framed by Western politicians and media). The rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters” as always described by Western media) shut down the airport and the transport infrastructure, which was also extensively vandalised. At the airport one journalist from China was bound and held by the rioters. The rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters” as framed by Western politicians and media) threatened to attack police married quarters. Government employees and their families were also threatened and doxed by the rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters”, as framed by Western politicians and media). The Chamber of the Legislative Council was invaded and vandalized. Infrastructure was also vandalized and the petrol bomb became ubiquitous in the hands of rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters”, as framed by Western politicians and media). When the National Security Law was introduced The West went into self-righteous overdrive. Rather amusing considering that shortly afterwards Canada invoked their Emergency Powers Act, for truckers honking their horns and nothing like the violence seen in Hong Kong. No other country would have permitted the level of violence caused by the rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters”, as framed by Western politicians and media). So called citizen journalists place themselves between the rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters”, as framed by Western politicians and media) and the police so that it appeared the police were attacking the “media”. Western media became directly involved on the side of the rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters”, as framed by Western politicians and media). Around the same period as the riots (sorry, “peaceful protests”, as framed by Western politicians and media) in Hong Kong similar riots in Chile resulted in about 36 people being killed and upwards of 2,500 people being injured. The riots in Chile received nothing like the media coverage given to the riots (sorry, “peaceful protests”, as framed by Western politicians and media) in Hong Kong. It is nice to see that the National Security Law has returned Hong Kong to peace and prosperity. And Nancy Pelosi said the violence and mayhem was a “beautiful sight”. Not forgetting Ted Cruz traveling to Hong Kong to support the rioters (sorry, “peaceful protests”, as framed by Western politicians and media). Western politicians and media made it plain that they stood on the side of the rioters (sorry, “peaceful protesters”) some of whom had started to move away from “mostly fiery but peaceful protests” into the beginnings of terrorism, not that one would ever see that in Western reports.
Now that it has been enacted Article 23 of the Basic Law brings Hong Kong in line with the US, UK, Canada, Singapore and Australia in respect of treason, secession, sedition, subversion, theft of state secrets, the prohibit of foreign political organisations or bodies from conducting political activities against the State and the prohibition of political organisations or bodies from establishing ties with foreign political organisations or bodies.
I think that you are forgetting the contentious 1960s! With the assassination of JFK, the Kent state student shootings by soldiers and the chaos of the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention, etc!
Ive not read his book. But have there been a post-mortem analysis of the recent chilean popular movement that arguably deflated?
Again, an educational and interesting conversation on this show.❤
We had Occupy Wallstreet then we went WOKE. Clearly "controlled opposition"
Money knows protests happen. So, it makes more off them. When populations attrit, new building and loans can occur. There are enough people that millions can be thrown into the military blender. They do things because they can.
Loved this interview. The point about not having a plan after protest. The elite have been so smart distracting and dividing. Peace comrades! Let's never give up. Because…"We don't fight fascists to win, we fight bc they're fascists" CH. And…"sucking at something in the beginning leads to success at something" Jake the dog from Adventure Time.
As a 15M protester in Spain, I think Spain was among the first to launch protests worldwide.
All of these chaotic ruthless man-made catastrophes happened because the ONLY superpower who can STOP all of them is in fact sponsoring many of these inhuman acts.
Very informative
Liberals became the reactionaries in America. I saw something recently in Oregon: they decided to recriminalize drugs. Even after 2020 and all the rhetoric about social intervention, we are back to throwing people in jail. This time, for some reason, it won't lead to any discrimination. The educated liberal class runs the banks, the insurance companies, and the tech companies. They don't want things to change at this point
Ya know, people on the streets unable to even say what for could be a sign the whole thing is stage managed by agents of US govt working thru social media companies. That is how it seemed to me, not that the Americans had a real goal, other than testing the power of their weapon. Hence the lack of an end game, anywhere.
Can we get the real news network to cover the story on the 215 unmarked graves in mississippi? This is a major story. A lot of people and families are greatly affected by the revelation and atrocities of the law enforcement in mississippi…
Behaviours emerge in groups of animals on one side of the world and after is replicated somewhere else without social media!!! Imagine what could be done !
Great interview, as always.
Biden's done very little now because he fears AIPAC. In October he may pull the plug on Israel weapons because he needs the young folk back in the fold. I'm not holding my breath. If he loses the youth will be blamed.
How many tens of thousands more will be dead by then?
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Mass street actions could go to n many directions, as the 2 experts say.This sort of action is thus a tactic— larger movement, if it exists, gives content to various
tactics’ forms. Even armed struggle/ political military violence
can go both ways at same time.
He’s not realizing how the CIA and the U.S. State Department were behind the Color Revolutions?!?
Bevin has no special or novel knowledge or skill in his analyses of mass protests in this interview: the cadence then cascade of his dialogue in conjunction with his body language ( especially hand movements, head, facial expression, etc ) is highly suspicious [to me], but he, and sadly Hedges, seems oblivious of the key fact about much of the shortcomings he iterates: the superficiality and lack of any real depth of knowledge by these "masses".
This alone explains the "50 or 60" protestors he mentions, and Hedges mentioning Kropotkin capping the number at 150 protestors.
Bevin obfuscates/conflates this with his story of the free fares in mass transit/Movimento Passe Livre cause, unable to train numerous new joining-protestors, on a single, fairly simple issue, about a simple procedural process of how to progress that single issue.
No mention of how far were these mass protesters willing to go…. inhibitions by priestcraft {religion}, "stay back from my wallet", and of course cultural hegemony/'tradition'…. and the Original Sin – individual ownership of Land ( why is it your property?)…. just the obvious, and wise conclusion that vested interests will do all they and their well-paid minions, to thwart such 'impudence' .
For the love of gawd, get a new intro.
Let's solve this great mystery – the people have no power against the modern security state. They don't have the resources to maintain a strike. Any organization that actually gets started gets compromised. The unarmed, untrained, disorganized, and frightened populace cannot resist the physical might of the modern security state. Simply put one side is willing and able to do things the other side is not. That's it, period. Standing in the street and whining, in and of itself, is not power and gets you nothing. The system may tell you what you want to hear in the moment, to get you to shut up and go away; but they never have to follow through. Nature rewards the ruthless – the sociopath's creed. Not happy about it, but there it is.
I think in every generation there have been ways for demonstrations that were effective in its own time, no less than today’s social media.
Flyers, cassettes, radio, TV.
We have overwhelming channels today but the majority of them are propaganda who are supported by lobbyists or opposition groups, AI robots that are either to trash the other side or twist the News. The truth is either censored or lost among other fake channels.
No way these radlibs are presenting those protests as pro democracy movements. Arab spring was a destibilization op, gral Wesley clark and mccain made it explicit. There's even nytimes art admitting it.
Speaker hard to understand..
The leaderless idea for a movement cannot work in real life. The ideal solution would not be to have one leader (we know how that turns out), but a "team" or small group of five to seven people who would work by consensus.