Conversation with former President, Dr Thabo Mbeki
Conversation with former President, Dr Thabo Mbeki
Students and alumni engage the Patron of the Thabo Mbeki Foundation and Chancellor of Unisa, Former President Thabo Mbeki on broader socio-political issues or affairs relating to the country, the continent and the world.
Conversation with former President, Dr Thabo Mbeki
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People should not tell lies to jusifyt or suit a narrative of certain people whose agenda is to create an empire for Tutsis called the HIMA empire.
If Mobutu hated the so-called banyamulenge, what about Laurent Kabila whom they fought alongside and removed Mobutu but in the end, they killed him and placed a Tutsi Joseph Kanambe alias Kabila at the helm of DRC leadership, who facilitated the infiltration of the Rwandan Tutsi into many DRC state institutions.
No one denies that the Tutsi were part of Congo when boundaries were drawn by colonialists. They are found particularly in North Kivu and a few in the Northeastern border with S. Sudan now. Another small portion is found in Idjwi near Bukavu, in South Kivu and was incorporated as Bashi the largest tribe in South Kivu. All those groups of Tutsis never used or carried the name Banyamulenge since independence. Those bordering Sudan are known by different names, those in N. Kivu are called Hema and those who are found in S. Kivu are called Havu who have mixed with Bashi and are known as Bashi. Then comes those who start calling themselves Banyamulenge, they are refugees of 1959 who fled Rwanda on 26 November that year. They were placed in the Mulenge area as a temporary refugee camp where they derived this phantom name BANYA-MULENGE which means the people of Mulenge. This group once called themselves different names according to the area where they lived as they migrated in search of grazing animals and had names like Banya-Vyura, Vyura which is a place in old Katanga, in the territory of Kalemie now the province of Tanganyika. Belgian Administrators after observing that Mulenga is now small for the encampment of the refugees, colonial rulers negotiated the settlement of those Rwanda refugees from Ubira territory to Fizi territory in a place called Minembwe. While there Belgian colonial authorities and humanitarian agents Red Cross and UNHCR forbade these Tutsis to be involved in the Congolian local politics while waiting to return to their mother country Rwanda. As time went by, they broke this accord. In 1964 when the Mulelist movement which was created by Lumumbist loyalists found its ground in the Kivu, precisely in Fizi after it was defeated in Kisangani in 1962, among members of the Mulelists movement was a gentleman called Laurent DÊsirÊe Kabila.
While Mulelists opened the new front from Fizi, these Rwandan refugees divided themselves into two groups, one group joined Mulelists who were then called Mouvement National Congolais "MNC" led by Laurent Kabila after the death of its leader Pièrre Mulele, this group was led by Christophe Kanambe biological father of Joseph Kanambe alias Kabila. Another group of these Tutsi refugees joined ArmÊe Nationale Congolaise "ANC" during its offensive against the rebels led by Bisengimana Rwema. Their main objective in dividing themselves like that was that if either one of the two parties won, they would get help to start a war against the Hutu government led by General Kahibandau. In 1971, Mobutu nominated Bisengimana Rwema a Rwanda Tutsi as DG in the presidency. This man made a call to hitop m compatriots who were with the MNC-Lumumb4a led by LD Kabila to quit because they had succeeded in getting a strategic post in state affairs.
In 1980, Gisaro the father of Alexis Gisaro the current minister of infrastructure and public works wrote his thesis on the Banyamulenge people.
In the 1990s, they abolished all other names such as BANYA-viura, Banya-Bibokoboko, Banya-Alelenge, etc and used Banyamulenge.
In the past, the so-called Banyamulenge denied vehemently of not speaking Kinyarwanda, but kinyamulenge. How come all of a sudden they now know to speak Kinyarwanda, and want to be identified as Kinyarwanda speaking, not Kinyamulenge speaking? Furthermore, how did Kinyamulenge vanish in thin air?
The question is, how can a tribe change names whenever any situation changes? And not that, how do you trust such people who falsify history for it to fit into a society?
Reminded of what the Tutsis did to Bantu and Twa in Uganda, Rwanda, and Burundi, confiscating indigenous people in those countries their kingdoms and creating their own, is it not what they want to do in DRC as well, fighting for nationality at all costs, acquire land then, establish a self-proclaimed empire? The main agenda is expansionist Tutsi ideology in Africa, using the African slogan of Panafricanism. And if this is how Panafricanism will be used, then a country like DRC sees no its survival future in the AU.
DRC will become a disgruntled country, to secure and protect itself like North Korea is.
With its minerals, DRC is capable of building nuclear bombs to secure itself from any external threats and properly secure its borders.
Don't push DRC to that extent, it will be uncomfortable to some of you when it will take those steps after years of small countries jumping on its head. And once if that becomes an option, don't you blame DRC, for whatever it will take as a decision because it has had enough humiliations.
That is a warning to all of you support criminals who have caused desolation to indigenous people of DRC.
The guy is very knowledgeable,I may disagree with him but you can't take away the fact that is well vest in terms of understanding the issues that affect our country and the continent as whole
Histoire ignorance on congo matter is pathÊtique
MBEKI is AN Opportunist not a politician
Thabo Mbeki's wisdom is priceless. This is real Mrabulo.
Nigerian and others African who suffer from xenophobia attack u need to protect yourself, take up guns ,fight , u hear it from the President of south Africa . That the M23 rebells are right to take arms and fight the government, no wonder he almost take arm to fight Jacob zuma back
I respect this old man , but to sides with Kagame about congo ,im very disappointed, eastern congo population speak swahili not kinyarwanda , M23 is part of Rwanda army its has been ptoven by un ,USA france and others. The main target is to control the minerals in eastern congo , the banyamulenge story is made up in Kigali, jusy to divert the true story
I don't understand Thabo Mbeki. What world did he grow up in. In England?
In short this right wing black politician is saying during his term there only was progress?
Well, we're not memory loss patients sir.
There's a huge difference between economic growth on paper and real economic growth TO THE FORMER IMAGINALIZED. Mbeki was and remain pro-white, to him economic growth means white markets performing well, forget black empowerment.
It is during Zuma's period when we witnessed the immense rise of black indeginous millionaires.
Both Mbeki and Ramaphosa are direct puppets of the minority whites.
Zuma was, is and will remain of the people.
Mr the president Thabo Mbeki, please excellency when did you had about "Banyamulenge"in DRC before you tells stories to the public which can bring confusion to the school!
The politics of the Republic of South Africa is a complex and fractious one. In the run-up to the elections in two months' time, there is a hive of activity. The charlatans and fraudsters are right in the race. There is, on the one hand, abject ignorance, with folks just blindly following and being fed chicken fodder. On the other hand, there are the informed and the intelligentsia who can read the situation for what it is. Sadly, the mob psychology sells, and the gullibility of the masses feeds it. Anyone who has read, Jacques Pauw's "The President's Keepers", or has appetite to read and be informed, would begin to join the dots from what TM Mbeki is about. To complete the narrative, read the Nuggent Commission and the Zondo Commission Reports.
Your excellency thank you for being steadfast, I particularly want to thank for speaking out on the issues concerning Africa as whole. Spot on as far as DRC is concerned. đˇđŧ
that Jonathan guy is excellent đ
To be honest,was Zuma a presidential candidate? đĸđ
South Africa has fallen victim of the culture of privilege and has developed a new form of dependency and in my view slavery, 14 million people rely on grants and the operational budget for Social Development is a staggering 246 Billion Zar, whilst the combined value of the Johannesburg Stock Exchange is 7 Billion, this points to a negative trajectory towards a negligent tax base which further fuels budget difficulties, it's population is growing and it's economy is shrinking with below 1% GDP growth.
Interestingly, the wise former president appears to speak in favour of the political developments taking place in West Africa as pertaining to Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger specifically as being nations led by a bold and new generation of young leaders who say enough on the deeds of their fathers who continued to bow to France's exploitative neo-colonialist agreements. If this is true then why are young South Africans who call for the full exposure and subsequent review of the so-called "Sunset Clauses" and a new CODESA, shunned upon and called dangerous radicals who want to collapse the Republic of South Africa? For what is different between the ANC's Sunset Clauses and those exploitative agreements which France forced the West African nations to sign with them?
Mbeki's revelations of what the contents of the Nugent Report really entailed is frightening as well as being incredible. The conspiracies which claim that there are people even governments who pull the strings across the entire chess boards are worryingly beginning to sound more and more true. If the attempt to collapse the democraric State in the early 2010s failed back then then who is to say the forces in the shadows won't attempt the coup again in the near future? Unfortunately, politically, the average South African is very immature and apathetic and this is why these "Deep State" shananigans persist.
what a useles former President who sold SOEs to his friends. killed thousands of south aAfricans with aids, telling them to eat betroot.
We are a REPUBLIC -WHY IS THERE ANY 'KINGDOMS" which is recognized. They should be abolished, as well as all the fake princes, princesses and apparent royalty that get upward to R1 million plus per year just because they are 'royalty'. This is an abomination of our republic and democracy. The people speaking on this podium do not want democracy; they want to use a democratic voting system to entrench tribalism even further. #TRIBALISM_MUST_FALL
Vote DA save South Africa đ. DA does better where they govern.
One of the things Former President Mbeki made me aware of, its regarding SEOâs. why would all the SEOs perform badly all of a sudden? Not even one of those SEO is making a profit. Two questions aroused in my mind: Did those who wanted to destroy South Africa use the opportunity during Zumaâs presidency to destroy these entities? Or Former President Zuma is part of those who want to destroy South Africa?đ¤đ¤đ¤
I wish this man could run a third time for President, I would vote for him.
The scary part is that the state is gonna be a tiny little part of governance.
DRC has over 465 ethnies. Banyarwanda (who are naturalized without any ancestral lands in pre-colonial Africa in today's Eastern DRC) are not a major group, are you encouraging ethnic centered rebellions?
The ethnic centered rebellion of Kagame (FPR) had fueled the hate that made the genocide of 1994 possible, this beyond the history of domination of Tutsi over Hutus (the indigenous people of Rwanda).
Mbeki should focus on white supremacists of DA, AFRIFORUM and Orania who don't recognize the presidency of ANC. That's a by far more critical problem with huge consequences for SA, SADC, AU and BRICS.
Thank you!
If I was to meet this Man I would have the following questions:
– Is he satisfied with the 1+4 solution he proposed to Congolese? Mixing all these military forces that included Rwandan Tutsi officers in the Congolese army, was it something acceptable to him?
– He mentioned the Berlin conference. How many recognized states existed in Pre-colonial Africa in today's Eastern DRC? What was the population?
– Banyamulenge: they called themselves Banyarwanda. And call Congolese, indigenous people. Did he consulted archives from Colonial powers (Belgium and Germany) to know by facts if Eastern DRC had a population of Rwandan heritage, if yes? Which one? Because we have reviewed that (including notes of Stanley).
Mobutu had Bisengemana (a Tutsi) as his director of office. They granted collectively the Congolese citizenship to Banyarwanda (they represented less than 1% of the population. Note DRC'S population was 15.4 million people in 1965).
The problem, there open border in Eastern DRC. So population migrated more and more to Eastern DRC especially following Museveni and Kagame activities in the region. So, would you grant all Zimbabweans in SA the SAn citizenship?
– Banyarwanda mix: they were in majority Hutus (Bantu) before 1994. After 1997, Tutsi are the majority as most Hutus have been assimilated to FDLR and some have been killed during the invasion of DRC and a few crossed the country to end up in Congo Brazzaville.
So Me Mbeki, are you clouded by your historical relationship with Uganda (during the struggle), or you are repeating a story that have been told to you at SunCity by the people of RCD? You are not talking facts. Very sad for such a brilliant man. Do some research and a think critically.
The issue is
I hope he now knows that HIV is real…
Fire the sound guy. This was painful to listen to
Can year 1 successes or upward trajectory be linked closing of the inequality gap?
the wisdom of this man is priceless đ¯
Thanks Mr President for Umhabulo
Mr President, even though government may have taken a decision to build additional capacity in 2004, there's due processes that needed to be followed most important EIA which for such massive greenfield project will not take less than 2 years and thereafter begin with the design process. These processes alone takes no less than 3 years excluding the procurement of contractors. Surely there should be records to account for duration of these milestones
2:19:15
Why Zuma would want to destroy SARS it does not make sense, i think Mbeki he does not understand himself there
Thabo Mbeki needs to move on
@3:10:09 the audience claps, yet the gentleman says, at the ballot box we should remember the party that gave us freedom. He, himself is not following the presentation. đ¤
Now it proves my view point about zupta that he is bitter and he is up for revenge. For when he and Mbeki were removed as leading negotiators in 1990. Where they replaced by Ramaphosa and Lakota if not mistaken. Now the 9 years of wasted years. It was true because what he did "zupta" was to destroy the state institutions. So that when "Ramaphosa" comes in as president. Will have to rebuild the institutions. And the process it will affect service delivery to our communities. As his focus was to rebuild the state institutions. So it painful to blame Ramaphoria for the mess which was not caused by him. And it also proof the point why this current ANC is called the Anc of Ramaphosa. Destroy SARS by not collecting enough Revenue, which will able the State to funtion properly. And they delayed the building of this power stations. It make sense Mr. Mbeki.
If private sector invest there should also be proper regulations to control greed. Just as much as we need people to check what leaves the continent we need people to regulate what companies earn to also protect the citizens
The reason why I say that is because in Europe the energy companies still make huge profits out of the people . They've increased their tariffs and blame it on the war in Ukraine which is a lie and governments don't do anything to stop these companies.
There was freedom but the country got captured again.
To be free we need a government which will fight corruption. My view is that the ANC, MK and EFF will not fight corruption but would rather weaken protect the criminals. Both Ramaphosa and Zuma said that the ANC comes first and South Africa second. Malema on the other hand shows that his party will give free stay out of jail tickets.
The charisma in Mbeki, a gold of knowledge flowing like a river, we had a president here, that is not to say he was perfect.
Does he still believe hiv doesnât cause AIDS,
and that his quiet diplomacy with Mugabe destroyed Zimbabwe.
Umsholozi shem, will just sing 'umshini wami'đ¤Ŗ
Am happy this guy was recalled if his view on land is that of freedom charter then we are doomed as Africans we will never own land in S.A.
Mbeki is the one who messed up the country when his hatred of Zuma caused factions in the ANC. Once there are factions there will be corruption as you hear them saying it's our time to eat. There are other political parties without such factions. Again the economy was subotafed during Zuma tenure even banks manipulated the rand. Mbeki knows very well what happened, it's not a puzzle
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